Meeting with Ukrainian MP Evgeny Shevchenko

Belarus President Aleksandr Lukashenko expressed the hope that his meeting with Ukrainian MP Evgeny Shevchenko will be a good signal and will contribute to the development of relations between the two countries.

"It's nice to meet you. It turns out that there are still people in Ukraine who respect Belarus," the head of state said as he welcomed the guest in the Palace of Independence.

"Not just respect, but who love and appreciate it. It is a great honor for me to meet you. I have long wanted to meet you. This is truly so," Evgeny Shevchenko replied.

Aleksandr Lukashenko noted that this meeting is also important for him. "First of all, this is a reason to talk about Belarusian-Ukrainian relations. We probably have not spoken about them much lately. And when we do it is not always in the positive vein. I know what is happening in my native Ukraine. You know my attitude to Ukraine, not only as President, but my personal attitude. This is why this meeting of ours is very important as a good signal. I hope that this will be a good signal, based on what I know about you and your position on Belarusian-Ukrainian relations and in general in relation to Belarus," the President said.

Secondly, the head of state expects that this meeting will be a good start for cooperation between true patriots of Ukraine and Belarus. "We have never hidden anything from our Ukrainian friends, we do not intend to do so in the future, especially from our friends. Maybe I thought that the number of our friends has decreased, but this is hardly the case. Probably they are talked about less and maybe they are less visible now. But I don't think we have fewer friends there," the Belarusian leader said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko said: “You know my stance on Ukraine. It remains unchanged. I would very much like Ukraine to be ours so that three brotherly Slavic nations could be together. For the benefit of the nations. Nobody intends to enslave each other. Nobody intends to pressure each other. But politics is politics. You understand there can be various nuances. This is why those, who are smarter, win in politics instead of those, who are simply strongest. And those, who exploit the situation in a way to make everything better. I mean the situation in Donbass as well.”

In his words, he has been deeply immersed in the corresponding problems and has always passed on various requests and proposals if someone asked him to. “If a former president of Ukraine asked me to. And with this president when we met… If there were some requests for the sake of discussing things in Russia, act as some intermediary (which I don’t like very much). We are relatives. My actions are based on that. This is why I’ve always done it. And President of Russia Vladimir Putin and I have had many conversations about Ukraine. Putin and I talk about Ukraine at every meeting. And trust me, it is sincere, we talk about what is going on in Ukraine and around Ukraine with regret,” the head of state noted.

In particular, Aleksandr Lukashenko mentioned his vision of how the situation in Donbass can gradually get back to normal: “Let me tell you absolutely sincerely: the normalization of the situation in problem spots in Ukraine, primarily in Donbass, depends primarily on Ukraine. If probably starting tomorrow one starts acting upon the Minsk agreements and so on. Someone’s nerves and some Ukrainian interests may be affected. But trust me Ukraine will benefit in the medium term.”

Aleksandr Lukashenko said he had personally discussed the relevant matters with the former president of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko and with the current president, possible options had been contemplated. “I understand that all sides want to save their faces. But one has to understand that Russia is a huge country. It can help Ukraine a lot with restoring Donbass and so on,” he said. “Putin made such proposals. He asked me to convey them to Poroshenko. I told him and explained everything. But back then it was the first time when I understood that Ukrainian politicians, the leadership are not self-directed. Because it was necessary to make these decisions and get things moving step by step. Many issues would have been addressed by now.”

“But I witnessed it. Putin cannot be blamed for it. He made proposals. Good ones. But the former president rejected them,” Aleksandr Lukashenko added.

Aleksandr Lukashenko asked Evgeny Shevchenko to send his regards to Petro Poroshenko. “I would be very grateful if you gave my regards to him, whatever your relations are, when you see him (I guess, you might meet him in Verkhovna Rada),” he said.

“I often see Petro Poroshenko during sessions,” Evgeny Shevchenko pointed out.

“You know, no matter who was the president of Ukraine, no matter how different our views were, we always maintained good relations,” the Belarusian head of state stressed.

Aleksandr Lukashenko also noted that there were different situations. “Please, do not think that Viktor Yanukovych was my favorite Ukrainian president,” the head of state noted. “Not at all. I remember that he banned my flight when I was going to attend the conference on the Chernobyl disaster. First, he invited me, but then, due to pressure from the West, disinvited. You see, there were different situations,” he pointed out.

“As for Viktor Yushchenko, it seemed our relations would not work out at all. However, we established great relations. The same can be said about Leonid Kuchma,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

The Belarusian President also commented on the recent remarks about Belarus made by Leonid Kravchuk, the first president of Ukraine. “I do not event want to talk about him. I do not understand his behavior, he does not even know me well (although Belarus is not an alien country for him as a person from the Soviet Union), but he still allows himself to make such statements. I do not know what his goal is. It is important in politics: everything serves a certain goal. In this situation, I cannot understand why he is doing this,” Aleksandr Lukashenko noted.

“The trade with Ukraine is estimated at nearly $5 billion. You know that we have never, even in this situation, done any harm to Ukraine. We gave everything Ukraine asked for, including electricity when there was a problem with it. It was my personal order to give as much electricity as Ukraine needed,” the Belarusian leader noted.

He recalled the request of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a year ago to help with fuel for field operations in Ukraine. Belarus stands ready to continue providing assistance to its neighbor if necessary. “Zelenskyy once called. Sowing was in full swing in Ukraine when the country ran out of fuel. We took fuel from our enterprises and passed it to Ukrainians last year. We help neighboring Ukrainian regions. Not as much now because of the border closure, but we are still helping. Earlier, we would go to Ukraine with our machinery to help Ukrainians with planting and harvesting. We are ready to keep doing this whenever we can,” the Belarusian head of state said.

“However, what worries me is these anti-dumping showdowns of various kinds. Someone lobbied something, others did not like it. Some Ukrainian companies whispered to the government that things are done differently in Belarus and suggested banning certain products. You know, we did not respond to that. In fact, they imposed a ban on goods worth about $300 million. What if we ban some Ukrainian commodities? You are fully aware that the European Union will not buy all this from you and will not even buy what it has promised to buy. It gives you annual quotas that you use up literally within the first quarter. Zelenskyy told me this. Well, what is next?” Aleksandr Lukashenko asked.

“I believe that being a person familiar with business processes, you understand that we should not create tensions in our trade, because trade is the base. If there is no trade (our trade is more or less balanced), what kind of relations can we have in other areas,” the head of state said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko said he regretted the cancellation of the 2020 Forum of Regions of Belarus and Ukraine that was due to be held in Grodno: “Why did this have to be done?” he asked.

The head of state emphasized that sometimes not everything can be resolved at the level of the governments, therefore interregional contacts are very important as they help tackle certain issues faster. “A request has been submitted to supply powdered milk to Ukraine. What is the problem here? There is no need to decide it here in Minsk. Decisions can be made in Gomel, Brest ... This forum of regions was canceled. Who benefits from it? No one,” the head of state said.

“We are not going to confront Ukraine head-on in any issues and behave indecently. We will of course have to react somewhere if we cross these forbidden red lines. We however do not want to have bad relations with the country which is more to us than just a southern neighbor (I do not consider Ukraine a foreign country at all. I served in the Border Troops, and our area of responsibility was the Western Border District centered in Kiev. I have had Ukraine in my heart since my youth, not to mention the roots of my ancestors somewhere between Chernigov and Kiev),” said the President.

The President emphasized that people in Belarus treat Ukrainians very well. “Since the conflict in Donbass began, we have welcomed some 150,000 Ukrainians. Some of them returned home later. Many got jobs here, and I signed a decree granting equal rights to Ukrainians in Belarus. This means a big social package, including free education, free healthcare, employment. It is not easy to provide 150,000 people with everything they need. You see how migrants come to the European Union, and they cannot divide 2,000 people in order to accommodate them. We have done everything necessary for 150,000 people. We always act open-heartedly,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko said: “Listen, do you think the work of the trilateral group is a gift for Lukashenko? It isn’t. President Poroshenko, Putin made the request back then, everyone agreed to negotiate in Minsk. It is close, beneficial from the political point of view. We’ve always welcomed Leonid Danilovich Kuchma [Ukraine’s first permanent representative in the trilateral contact group on Donbass] with arms wide open. We provided everything Ukrainians wanted. They say it is necessary to move the negotiations to another location. Well, at least the leadership and [Ukraine’s current permanent representative in the trilateral contact group Leonid] Kravchuk do. Go right ahead. If Ukraine benefits from it, we will only welcome it.”

“But I don’t understand why anyone would want to travel to the back of beyond if they can [meet and discuss the necessary issues] right over the fence, at your relatives’, at a place where you can go as if it were your home? Why would anyone do it? It is purely political shenanigans. But trust me we don’t really care about it. We take pity on Ukraine because the process can take too long or can be actually derailed. You shouldn’t do it,” Aleksandr Lukashenko added.

First of all the Ukrainian politician thanked the Belarusian head of state for the opportunity to meet. “It is a great honor for me, even from the point of view of diplomacy: when a country’s leader meets with an ordinary parliamentarian, it is a very significant event for the latter,” he said.

“But you are no ordinary MP,” Aleksandr Lukashenko responded. “You are an advocate of our relations. We saw this. You were not afraid to go against the tide, because you believed that the Belarus-Ukraine relations would last forever,” the President added.

“I believe that Ukraine and Belarus are two closest nations. No matter who is in power, no matter what happens, these peoples will never get estranged. Many might argue that the things I am saying do not resonate with all Ukrainians. But I know (and opinion polls prove this) that Ukrainians, in the sense of a political nation, not only ethnic Ukrainians, but all ethnicities who live in Ukraine, love Belarus and Belarusian people. Deep in their heart they resist what is happening, even those who cannot say it aloud,” he said.

“I just voice the opinion of these people. I am not saying that this is a majority or a minority, but they are many. Opinion polls show that today 36% of Ukrainians would like to see you as the president of Ukraine. It’s for a reason. This is sociology, this is science. Therefore, it is unacceptable to make such statements as some of our politicians do,” the MP is sure.

He also explained why he speaks up and pushes for closer relations between Belarus and Ukraine. “This is dangerous and unwelcome. I will go back, and certain mass media will drag me through the mud. However, people should see someone who is not afraid, who takes the lead and shows another way. These narratives, constant information pressure in Ukraine make people simply lose faith and hope for pragmatism and common sense. All policies aimed at destroying economic, friendly ties with neighbors will never bring anything good. I personally believe that we should use diplomacy to build relations with everyone around us,” the Ukrainian MP concluded.