Interview with U.S. blogger Mario Nawfal

Belarusian President Aleksandr Lukashenko gave an interview to U.S. blogger Mario Nawfal on 27 February.

The interview lasted about an hour and a half. The conversation raised a number of issues, including normalization of relations between East and West, and, in particular, the emerging dialogue between the USA and Russia, peace process in Ukraine and the role of the new US administration in it, as well as geopolitics and the current state and prospects of international relations.

Mario Nawfal is a U.S. crypto entrepreneur and blogger, runs the Roundtable project on X.

Mario Nawfal considers himself to be objective and sees his mission as building bridges between East and West through new media.

The head of state was asked whether he discussed the topic of the forthcoming USA-Ukraine minerals deal during his recent conversation with the Russian President. “Did he express any opinion as to whether this might lead to peace? How does he assess the progress towards peace? Perhaps he shared his impressions of his recent conversation with Trump,” the interviewer asked.

“Only in general terms: about the conversation with Trump, the talks in Saudi Arabia, and on minerals deal. We will meet in Moscow in a week and we will have a very detailed and thorough talk on all issues. That's what we agreed on during a phone tall: that we will meet and discuss all issues in detail,” the head of state said.

“As for access to rare earth materials, I raised this issue [in a conversation with Russian President Vladimir Putin] and told him: 'It is a little strange that the USA demands Ukraine give them the most valuable things it has. This deal is not only about rare earth materials. It is about natural gas, oil, logistics (access to ports) and so on. There is a broader issue at stake. I explained my position to Putin. He remarked that the Americans are banging on an open door. Russia has all of these resources and is open to negotiations and cooperation'. And then he voiced it publicly,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

The head of state believes that the agreement between the United States and Ukraine regarding rare earth minerals could cause concern for Russia, and it is likely that this is already the case.

“This is my opinion. I have not discussed these matters with Russia and with Putin, but we will do so. It could probably raise concerns if Russia feels that these arrangements go beyond economic relations. If they are purely about the economy, not the military-industrial complex, weapons, armed forces, then why not? Russia will continue working,” the Belarusian leader said.

“Yes, it's not very pleasant to have such a powerful state as the United States of America extracting minerals, setting up enterprises across your fence. I guess it is not enjoyable. It could have been your job, but instead others are doing it. But Russia will survive this. Russia is huge and has enough resources,” the President added.

According to Aleksandr Lukashenko, during his recent contacts with Vladimir Putin, the Russian leader confirmed his readiness to negotiate the settlement of the situation in Ukraine, including with representatives of Ukraine.

“He said that Ukrainians and Zelensky were offended that they were not invited to the talks in Saudi Arabia. He added then that there was no need to call Ukraine as only issues pertaining Russia and the United States were discussed there. Ukraine was hardly mentioned at those talks. So there was no need to invite Ukraine, he said. Trump also spoke in the same vein. When it is time to discuss Ukraine’s issues, I think no one is going to solve them without Ukraine,” the Belarusian leader said.

“As for sending peacekeeping forces there [to Ukraine], Russia will never agree to this. At least, this is Russia's position today. Especially since the leadership of the European Union, primarily represented by Germany and France, is taking a very aggressive position at the moment,” the head of state said. “I do not know if Trump in his talks with Macron and Starmer was able to pivot them towards peace and peace talks, but you see they are taking a very aggressive stance on the Russia-Ukraine war.

“So Russia is categorically against any peacekeeping forces from European states,” the Belarusian leader said.

The blogger recalled that President Putin was the first President to call George Bush after 9/11 terror acts in the USA. Mario Nawfal asked Aleksandr Lukashenko about the possibility of returning to the times when the relations between the two countries were good.

“You know, in politics, there is no such thing as going back to something. And we don't need to go back to anything in the current situation. We have to keep moving. If we have steered away from the good track you mentioned, we should return to this track. But we should not go back to the past - it is impossible, it is impossible in politics. Especially now, when times are changing very quickly, when times are turbulent. There is no need to go back, we need to look forward and move forward,” the Belarusian leader said.

According to the President, the situation between the East and the West, between the United States and the rest of the world, including between the United States and Russia, changed very quickly. “No one would have thought it would. But one person - Donald Trump - took the risk and put things upright (hopefully) instantly," the head of state said.

“I would like to reiterate: I am not in favor of going back to something. We need to move forward depending on the situation we have,” Aleksandr Lukashenko added.

The President said that in general there should not be any barriers to cooperation between the East and the West.

As for the peace settlement prospects, Aleksandr Lukashenko said that he has high hopes on the policy of the current U.S. Administration: “I think they are doing a great job. Trump is doing a great job. He does not only talk the talk, but he is already putting his words into action when it comes to ending the war in Ukraine and in the Middle East. His efforts to end the war should be acknowledged. It seems to me that he has no other foreign policy but peace. Brilliant! Here I am ready to stand next to him and do everything I can to end the war and make people's lives better.”

“It is not okay when young people like you, Mario, die in the war today. Does it have to be like this? While the majority of society lives a rather normal life and a certain part of society lives a good life, someone dies for other people's interests. This is not okay. Thus, [the recent developments] inspire optimism,” the Belarusian leader added.

“Now all of us, especially you, the media, are busy searching for the reasons for this conflict and those to blame for it. My position is different. We will assign the blame later. No one will escape responsibility. We will come to grips with the reasons. This is not on the agenda right now,” the head of state said.

In this regard, Aleksandr Lukashenko commended the position of the current U.S. administration: “This administration gave a fresh momentum to efforts to end the war. I spoke about this back when the negotiations were underway here, when the Minsk agreements were in the works.”

The President recalled that after the conflict started in 2014 he kept saying that it would be impossible to achieve peace without the United States and that everything would depend on the position of the USA and its closest allies. “So it happened. Would the conflict in Ukraine have broken out if the USA, England and other Western countries had not been pushing to it by supplying Ukraine with weapons? No, it would not! Someone needed this war. It was only with Donald Trump coming to power that the peace process started in earnest. He openly said what he could do and what would happen if the war were not stopped. He said the right thing,” the Belarusian leader stated.

“This is what is important today, not searching for those responsible. We do not need another two years looking for those guilty while another million people die on both sides. It is not what we need. We need to stop the conflict. We need all parties to stop shooting at each other in the first place. After all, the kin folk is shooting at each other there. These are kin nations. Ukrainians and Russians are kin people,” Aleksandr Lukashenko remarked. 

“This must be stopped. We and the USA are in the same camp here. We have to do everything to stop it,” the President added.

“There is no need to browbeat Zelensky no matter what you think of him. It is important to come to terms with Zelensky because a large part of Ukrainian society supports him. So, it is important to negotiate. If you want, come over! It is just 200 kilometers from the Belarusian border to Kiev. Getting here takes half an hour by plane. Come over! We will sit here and reach an agreement in a calm atmosphere, hassle-free. So, please tell Trump that I am waiting for him here for talks with Putin and Zelensky. We will negotiate calmly if they want to make a deal,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

The President believes that Donald Trump is more independent than his predecessor Joe Biden. “He will make his own decisions even if they are wrong. Biden did not make decisions himself. When he was told not to phone, he did not. When he was told to call Putin a dictator, he called him a dictator,” the head of state said. “He had a lot of advisors: in the Pentagon on military issues, former Secretary of State Blinken - on foreign relations, and other key figures. Moreover, there were people in the State Department who hung on Blinken's every word and echoed what he said. There was a huge army of people to push Joe Biden in a certain direction.”

Aleksandr Lukashenko did not rule out that some industrial and military-industrial groups had influence over the President. “And Biden, due to his character and physical condition at the time, could not resist like Trump does. That was the whole problem,” the Belarusian leader said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko believes that the conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East will be resolved this year.

“Ukraine is too small to destroy the world we all - the USA, China, Russia, and Ukraine - live in. It is a weak explosive force. So, we need to resolve the situation with Ukraine. It will be easier to resolve the Middle East issue if the Americans want it. I think we will solve these problems this year,” the President said.  

He believes that if Joe Biden were re-elected to another term, the world would have come very close to a nuclear confrontation, to World War III. At least for now Trump's election has allowed us to avoid this worst-case scenario, Aleksandr Lukashenko believes.

“Trump seems to be a strong-willed person. I believe he will stay true to his main promises about peace,” the head of state noted.

Aleksandr Lukashenko recalled his conversation with Zelensky at start of war, predictions that came true.

“I told him that a new administration would come to power in the United States and the policy would change. No one would support you [Zelensky] in the war. And that was exactly what happened. The writing was already on the wall. It’s not that I am a great soothsayer, but everything I said came true. It’s all documented in the media,” the head of state said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko recalled that recently U.S. President Donald Trump has criticized Vladimir Zelensky saying that he had three years to stop the war. “He said the right thing. This conflict should have been stopped when it just started, the Belarusian leader stated.

He pointed out that after the conflict began the first three rounds of negotiations took place in Belarus, then another one in Istanbul.

“When the Istanbul peace process was underway, the then UK Prime Minister, Johnson, came there. Everything was done publicly. And he forbade Zelensky to agree to peace. He pushed Zelensky once again to war. I know the inner workings of the politics in the West very well. Johnson would have never done it on his own, without the blessings of the then U.S. administration. Therefore, I am absolutely convinced that the United Kingdom and the Biden administration had a role in Ukraine escalation. I am absolutely convinced of this. It was the coordinated position of the Americans and the British, which was delivered by Johnson,” the head of state stressed.

Aleksandr Lukashenko also pointed out that then he and President Vladimir Putin of Russia kept in touch. “We exchanged views on this issue. The things that were discussed in Istanbul were put on paper, and Putin handed these documents to me,” the President said.

“A certain result was achieved, and Putin often refers to it. There was a certain document that they agreed on. Had they implemented it, they would have been in a better place now,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said. “I publicly called on the Ukrainian authorities then to make peace, to agree. They refused, choosing to fight to the last Ukrainian. This is what the West was pushing Ukraine to.Well, they are still fighting to the last Ukrainian. Several million people have fled Ukraine. And, as the USA says, about a million Ukrainians were either killed or maimed.”

The President said that in the first days of the war he called Vladimir Zelensky and stressed that the war is raging on Ukrainian territory. “You, as President, are responsible for it. You will be held responsible for failing to prevent the war in your country,” Aleksandr Lukashenko warned him then.

The President also recalled the infamous events in Odessa, when the nationalist forces of Ukraine burned alive several dozen Russian and Russian-speaking people. In general, Ukraine has taken a course to crack down on the Russian language and oppress millions of Russian-speaking people. “I ask a question: imagine if US citizens were treated in the same way, let’s say in Mexico, in northern Mexico, what would happen? In response to the public outrage the U.S. administration would have wiped Mexico off the map into the Gulf of America or the Gulf of Mexico,” the head of state said. “The public pressure on Putin to protect the Russians and the Russian-speaking people in Ukraine victimized by the authorities was building up. There were many other reasons. So Putin stepped in to defend them. What can you hold against him?”

Aleksandr Lukashenko recalled that there were other reasons that led to the conflict. For example, Russia's security concerns were disregarded by NATO and the USA. Vladimir Putin publicly asked for guarantees, but none were given. The West was kind of pushing Ukraine's leadership toward this war. 

Moreover, many details have come to light after Elon Musk began auditing the spending of funds in the USA. “Musk did well to start auditing U.S. spending. The United States Agency for International Development was shut down, among other things. What were they doing? They were funding coups in other countries. More than $5 billion, as far as we know, was directed to organize Maidan in Ukraine. Why? We went through something similar in Belarus in 2020. Our coup attempt was also financed from these sources. That was how it happened,” the Belarusian leader stated.

Aleksandr Lukashenko once again urged to stop the war before searching for those responsible.

“People often ask me if I knew three years ago that this war would start in February. No, I did not. But if I had known, I would not have defended Ukraine back then. Because at that moment, we were already in a state of an economic war with Ukraine,” the Belarusian leader said.

The President recalled that Ukraine imposed sanctions against Belarus earlier than the United States and Western Europe did. “They arrested thousands of our freight rail cars with goods, which have not been returned to this day. They also arrested about a thousand trucks and 75 Belarusian drivers who drove these vehicles. I had to order a special operation to get them out. Three of them were killed, and their bodies were mutilated so that we could not understand what happened,” he stated. “So why should I have defended Ukraine? Ukraine escalated relations with Belarus earlier than the Americans and the entire West did.”

“Therefore, there is nothing to blame us for. Nevertheless, we stood for peace, not war. That was our position. And I emphasize once again, in the early days of the war I called Zelensky and told him all of this,” the head of state added.

Mario Nawfal said that he felt sorry for Vladimir Zelensky in some way because he found himself in a difficult situation. According to the blogger, Vladimir Zelensky looks like a very brave person, but on the other hand he is a pawn in a much bigger game and made many missteps that led to the war.

“You feel bad for Zelensky. So do I. I treated him like my own son. We were on very good terms. I was in Ukraine, and we held negotiations with Zelensky. He seemed like a smart person to me. He lacked experience in certain things. Those were his first steps in the position. He asked me things: how was this, what a certain person would do, what was the right way to go about this or that, and so on. We had warm, friendly relations. But the fact that he caved in to these extreme nationalist forces is bad,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

He presumed that Vladimir Zelensky probably had no one to rely on at the beginning of his presidency, therefore he had to maneuver. “At that time nationalists in Ukraine wielded significant influence. He sided with them. But he should not have done that. He made a number of mistakes because he was an unseasoned politician. When you have a lack of experience, do not rush. Think before you take any step. Talk with someone, ask for advice. There were people to consult with. But the main thing is the interests of your voters, the interests of Ukrainians,” the President emphasized.

Aleksandr Lukashenko recalled that Vladimir Zelensky promised a lot to Ukrainians and his main promise was to stop the war. “But in reality, he did everything to escalate the war.  He fueled this conflict to an incredible extent. Indeed, he made mistakes, and he was also pushed towards them. So from this point of view, I totally agree with you. I feel sorry for him too. But in politics, this does not work because you are responsible for your people, for your state. His policies led to the destruction of the state and the impoverishment of the people he made promises to,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

In the interview the President gave his take on whether Vladimir Putin regrets the conflict with Ukraine.

“There's always a choice. And Putin may have had that choice. But it's not even so much about NATO expansion to the East, it's about the threats that were created in Ukraine. After all he did not attack Belarus in response to NATO eastward expansion. He did not attack Belarus. That could also have been a response to NATO expansion. He attacked or invaded, as you say, Ukraine. Why? Because that's where he saw the threat to Russia and that's where the threats were publicly made against him. That's one of the big reasons for what happened,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

Mario Nawfal asked if Vladimir has regrets about what happened.

“We haven't talked about it, but I know him well, Putin didn’t expect it would turn into such a war. Otherwise he would not have agreed to the negotiations back then. When he saw a huge number of people dying, Putin instantly agreed to the negotiations to stop the conflict, to negotiate both on NATO, on demilitarization, on denazification, as he described it, on not killing Russian speakers, on not cracking down on the Russian language in Ukraine. It was all on the agenda. He wanted to negotiate when he saw what it had turned into. So I think he probably regrets it turning into such a full-scale conflict, a war, which he probably did not expect,” the head of state noted.

“I don’t think that Putin was in a situation where he had to consider pressing the red button. We didn’t discuss this issue directly, but we saw where it was all going. Putin never said that he was ready to take extreme steps. I don’t think he was ready. He was as close to pressing the red button as you were in the United States of America, England or France. I know you weren’t ready for that. The same about Putin,” the head of state said.

According to Aleksandr Lukashenko, Putin believes that there are no major reasons today for unleashing a nuclear war. “He understands better than anyone what this could lead to. Therefore, you can take my word for it, Putin never took the remote control to press this red button. If only aggression is committed against Belarus and Russia, then all methods of response will be used,” the President remarked.

Even if aggressed, Belarus and Russia will not necessarily use nuclear weapons immediately. “There are many other methods, including diplomatic ones or the use of conventional weapons and so on. Oreshnik, for example, and many more. No one is going to press the nuclear button. These weapons are for the situations of extreme threat. That is exactly what the USA will do in such a situation,” the Belarusian leader noted.

“You know, on a purely human level I am pleased that Trump was elected exactly at the moment when we started talking about nuclear war. Trump has a big family. Trump has a lot of small grandchildren. He and Melania have a son who is still very young, probably about 20 years old. He's probably the same age as my Kolya, my youngest son. They look alike in some ways. I am glad that he was elected because he has children. I can see that he loves his family very much, his big family, his children and grandchildren.  I think that a person who loves his children and his family will never press the nuclear button,” Aleksandr Lukashenko added.

During the conversation, Mario Nawfal recalled the events of almost two years ago - the attempted armed rebellion in Russia and the subsequent negotiations between Aleksandr Lukashenko and the head of PMC Wagner which helped to stop the rebellion. The blogger called the incident “a very terrible day”.

“This is a big question, actually. Surprisingly, my actions were acknowledged by the West, even by the CIA and MI6, as well as other intelligence agencies. They thought very highly of it. Why? It is not something that you would discuss publicly, but the West acknowledged it. I sensed it then, too. When it began, I got a feeling that Zhenya Prigozhin was eager to get his hands on the nuclear button. And the Westerners believed that there was a possibility that he could overthrow the government and seize nuclear weapons. That is what they thanked me for, privately,” Aleksandr Lukashenko shared some new details.

"I realized it in the middle of the day, not right away. I did not even think that Zhenya Prigozhin could go crazy like that. I knew him well, I had known him for a long time. We were on good terms, but for him to go that far... Due to the lack of experience he did not understand that not only Russia and the Russians, but also the Americans and the Britons would destroy him. They would not let him approach nuclear weapons. That is true. But he did not understand that. He was barreling ahead, straight to Moscow,” the President said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko said that he would in no way want to be a mediator in the Ukraine peace process.

“I would like you to understand my position. I hate mediation more than anything. It means getting involved in between someone and pretending that you can do something. Especially to mediate between the USA and Russia or the USA and China. We have brilliant relationships with Russia, with China. But, God forbid having to be a mediator between these giants. It has become obvious by now that in order to be a mediator, you need to have a powerful resource or something else,” the head of state said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko said that he believes in sincere politics. “If I can help with anything, like bringing people together or adding dynamics to some process, I will do it eagerly, if it can make people's lives better and if it is within my power and within the power of my state – Belarus,” he said. “But I would in no way want to be a mediator, especially in the Ukraine peace process. No mediation [for me]. If someone with a decision-making power approaches Belarus with such a request, we will be willing to help. But to get involved in these feuds... We already got involved once, when this hall of the Palace of Independence hosted negotiations between Russia and the West [the Normandy talks in February 2015]. What happened next? It turned out that representatives of major Western countries, Germany and France, who represented the European Union (supported by the USA) came here in order to deceive Russia. At least that's what they said later. Well, this is not true, this is not how it was. There was no foul play, no one was going to fool anyone.”

The President believes that when the trends changed both François Hollande and Angela Merkel had to fit in to show that they played a key part, they bought time for Ukraine to prepare an army for a war with Russia. “This is a lie. Well, it happens in politics,” the Belarusian leader said. 

The President stressed in the interview that recently, when listening to another round of statements by Trump, Musk and other members of the new U.S. administration, he said in a very small circle that these people act like they are still campaigning. 

“The election was very hard in the United States of America. You know that both Putin and I supported Trump,” the head of state said. “When Trump allegedly lost to Biden in the previous election [in 2020], I said publicly in Parliament just a few days later that it was unfair. Biden didn't beat Trump then. Then there were lawsuits. Not only people who stormed the Capitol were dragged through courts. So was Trump himself. I kept making statements that this is not democracy in any way. It's something scary.”

“After everything that happened in the United States, I still supported Trump publicly. I didn't think he was going to win. And when he won, I compared him to a bulldozer who plowed through the United States of America and won. It's unbelievable. He's an incredible man, and an incredible thing happened. He had a narrow escape in an assassination attempt... He is right: the Lord must have saved him. He saved him for some mission. Many people on our planet are watching what is happening in the United States. So is the Lord. And he evaluates it,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

He remarked that the United States has made a lot of very good actions and statements. “The idea to audit the spending under Biden and to investigate corruption in the Washington obkom, as we call the U.S. government here… What's wrong with that? I welcome it. It's the right thing to do. The plans voiced by the U.S. administration to normalize the situation in the Gaza Strip, in the Middle East, to stop wars, conflicts, to stop sending troops abroad, to overthrow governments, etc. Brilliant. That's what the whole world is dreaming about.”

Aleksandr Lukashenko believes that some statements should not have been made: “I made a joke privately that I would give the USA some good advice if I were there. I would tell Trump straight in his eye that’s not the way to go about things. There are too many statements that should not have been voiced.”

The President cited a video about “how they will make people of the Gaza Strip happy” as one example. “They will evict everyone from there, send them to some countries. Look, first of all, it is unrealistic, and secondly, even if you wanted to build something there, you should not have talked about it in such a way and publicized it and created some videos. This is unacceptable in politics, it is a mistake.”

The current administration makes many such mistakes - in form, not in content, Aleksandr Lukashenko is sure. “Today, you in the United States need to cool down, calm down and deliver on your promises,” he said.

“You have promised many good things. But as a matter of priority, you should deal with your internal problems. During the election campaign, you promised a lot to voters. And if things do not gain any traction within a year, if you do not deliver at all, you are up for some terrible, horrible times. Even your fellow party members will turn their back on you. This is possible. There is enough jealousy towards Trump. There are many jealous people who cannot stand him, but they understand that Trump was elected by people. Hopes are very high. You need to work consistently to live up to these expectations. This is not happening now. Statements are piling up: we will do this, we want this, we want that. What's the result? Time is running fast,” the Belarusian leader noted. 

Aleksandr Lukashenko emphasized that politics does not like hubbub. Today, results are needed, but this shock and awe strategy was the biggest mistake of the USA, he said.

Another example the President cited concerned the relations between the United States and the European Union: “To be honest, it is beneficial for us if the United States of America falls out with the European Union. But the question arises: why are the Americans doing it this way? They should be doing it calmly. No need to make a fuss, no need to do it loud. Do it calmly and quietly. These are your allies. They did everything you ordered them to do.”

The same thing concerned Ukraine: “Why would they claim that Zelensky has a 4% approval rating? Zelensky has never had 4%! His rating has been within 14-17% in the past and now. Not 57%, like he claims. His rating is 14-17%. He will lose in the polls. Why are you making such claims about his approval rating, about minerals and so on? These issues need to be handled calmly.” 

“Money loves silence. Why all this fuss? That's the first point. The second point is that when this war started, did you strike a deal with Zelensky that he would give up rare earth metals in exchange for arms and support? There was no talk of that. So why would you demand this today?” the President stressed. “It was grist to our mill that you showed Zelensky his place, he should have known it. But to be sincere, honest and objective, this claim does not have a leg to stand on. You will have your way,Zelensky will not have a choice. But the whole world is watching the United States of America today.”

According to Aleksandr Lukashenko, there are many things that Americans and politicians should tell Trump, even though he is a tough guy. “You don't need to be afraid. You need to act like Musk who says directly and bluntly what he will do and what he will not, what is right and what is wrong. You need to discuss it openly in the United States, and you need to do it the right way. Ideas you put forward can be good, but the way you frame them can be absolutely unpalatable,” the President remarked.

“Let the dust settle after the election. It will be in the best interests of U.S. voters, first of all, and it will also benefit the entire international community, if you take steps that will be welcomed by the entire world and, first of all, the Americans. You have little time to prove to American society that you are capable of something. If you do that, [U.S. Vice President] J.D.Vance or somebody else will secure another term. If you don't, the Republicans will suffer a crushing defeat in the next election, to no one's surprise,” the head of state added.

“I would tell Trump: stop these reckless attacks on China. You need to come to an agreement with China. I know China very well. I have seen it developing. You won't stop China. It's not like us, it's not like Russia. It's China. One and a half billion people are determined to defend China to the last,” the head of state said.

Aleksandr Lukashenko stressed that China is a high-tech country, and people there can make everything. “They even produced oxygen in space. Neither Russia, nor America, nor India did that. It's a very technologically advanced nation. They will give you a bloody nose if you persist with such a reckless policy,” he stated. 

“Come to terms with the Chinese. This will benefit the entire planet. And don't even think of trying to turn Russia against China. That will never happen. President Putin and the Russian leadership know who their friends were in difficult times,” Aleksandr Lukashenko added.

In the interview the President said that China does not want any aggravation of relations with its partners.

“Xi Jinping and I are on good terms. I can tell you for sure that Xi Jinping wants neither war nor even the slightest aggravation of relations. He does not need confrontation. This is natural for Chinese people. They want to mind their business, do it in a calm, peaceful manner. They understand that in peace they can achieve big success. And they actually prove successful. They don't tolerate war,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

He added that he discussed Ukraine with Chinese President Xi Jinping. China always supported peace in Ukraine and together with Brazil suggested a peace plan on Ukraine.

“I know for sure that this conflict was not in the interests of China, because their Silk Road initiative passed through Ukraine towards Western Europe. But there is a front there, a war that causes certain damage to China's economic interests. China needs no war at all,” the President said.

When asked about the possibility of Russia moving away from China and closer to the United States, the head of state stressed that such a scenario is possible in the future. “All kinds of things may happen in life, so I won't dismiss any development. It's quite possible,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

At the same time, he believes that the current leadership of Russia is not interested in a dramatic change of foreign policy course.

“Putin is a man who acts in the interests of his own people. For him, the interests of his people come first. We often discuss various matters and developments with him. He has repeated this many times. He is always guided by the interests of Russia and the interests of the Russian people. The territory of Russia is huge, the population is small. It is half of the USA, or even less. It is in the interests of Russia and the Russian people to maintain friendly relations with its neighbors. China is a neighbor, North Korea is a neighbor. We do not choose our neighbors. They are God given. And it is necessary to build normal relations with them,” the President pointed out.

Aleksandr Lukashenko stressed that the United States of America is the world’s leader, a hi-tech, rich country. “It is capable of many things. Russia understands it. And Russia will strive to establish very good relations with the United States of America,” he said. “Let us speak frankly: the sanctions that have been imposed on us and Russia have shown that a lot depends on the United States of America. Russia, Putin, the Russian authorities understand it very well. That is why Russia will try to maintain relations with China, Korea, and Iran. Russia has good relations with them already.”

The President asked a rhetorical question: Who brought Russia and China closer together? “You [the USA] pushed them towards each other. When Bolton and Pompeo came on a visit here, I asked them directly: What are you doing? Why are you cracking down on Russia? You are pushing Russia towards China. If such a nuclear power, similar to the USA, such a militarily strong state pivots closer to such an economic powerhouse as China, you will not be able to break such a union, such an alliance,” he said.

He recalled that the United States put pressure on Iran and North Korea. These states eventually became closer to Russia.

“You imposed sanctions. Russia is a huge country. It is a leader in the energy sector. It needed foreign currency earnings. Russia started looking for ways out not in the West, but in the East, in Asia. And it found it. Today it will be impossible to pull Russia away from China, to tear Russia away from China, to break those relations. This will never happen. The USA will get nothing good if it acts forcefully, by coercion… Trump will never go to war with China or Russia. He knows how it will end. He's a smart man in this respect. But if you put pressure on Russia in a bid to ruin Russia-China relations, it will lead to nowhere. On the contrary, it will lead to greater unity between these states. One will need to act carefully, hold negotiations,” Aleksandr Lukasenko stated.

Mario Nawfal believes that in the next 10 years Russia and the USA will not only normalize relations but are likely to become allies.

“It's quite possible. First, anything is possible in life. Secondly, Russia and the USA will always be allies. After all, the world’s biggest military power. But this alliance will not be directed against someone,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

“You and Russia can unite against someone only if it is an enemy for Russia and for you. Russia has no enemies today. The United States of America, by and large, has no enemies, either. Therefore, for the planet to be in balance, for the world to be free from those incomprehensible wars like in the Middle East or Ukraine, this alliance between Russia and the USA is possible and is necessary. An alliance for economic development is possible and important. But it’s a long journey. You are right in this respect,” the President said.

The head of state stressed that the Russian leadership is interested in good, friendly relations with the United States of America and that both Russia and the USA will benefit a lot from this.

“Take, for example, the current situation between the United States and Ukraine regarding rare earth minerals. Look, Russia ranks second in the world for these resources, China ranks first. They have plenty of these rare earths in a more accessible form. Cooperate with Russia and you will receive immense benefits. You will benefit from it even more than Russia. So why are you trying to enter Ukraine through the window when the door to Russia is open! Go and cooperate!” Aleksandr Lukashenko noted.

He recalled that Russian President Vladimir said recently that Russia is interested in this cooperation.

“Moreover the minerals deposits are mainly on the territories that were once Ukrainian and are now part of Russia. A large amount of these minerals are already in Russia's hands. So, the United States and Russia just need to negotiate and cooperate,” the Belarusian leader said.

Answering the question of Mario Nawfal, Aleksandr Lukashenko said that one of his tasks is to give a chance to those who made mistakes or was misled in 2020.

“This is my task, and we are already doing it. Those who made mistakes, who were misled, should live on their own land, create families and raise children. This is one of my tasks,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

In the interview the head of state said that the European Union countries will prosper if they establish good relations with Russia.

Aleksandr Lukashenko noted that there are very big internal contradictions in the European Union, and the USA is aware of it.

“The future of Europe may have been good only in an alliance with Russia. If the Europeans, the European Union established good, normal relations with Russia, at least in the economy, they would prosper, the head of state said.

However, the President has its doubts whether the USA needs it. Anyway, not only China and Russia, but also the European Union is a competitor for the USA.

“Whether the USA will be great again is a big question. The same is about the European Union... The EU is also an economic competitor to the United States of America. This unity between the European Union and Russia was probably not quite in the interests for the USA,” Aleksandr Lukashenko noted.

However, it is an important one for the world, the President added. According to him, any system is stable if it rests on several pillars. Today these pillars are the United States of America, China, the European Union, Russia, India.

If it happens that only the United States remains as a pillar, there will be a big probability that this system, the whole planet, will collapse. It will be hard to maintain stability even with two pillars, China and the USA. This is why this third pillar, the European Union, is very important for the whole world. I believe we should not destroy this third pillar: it needs to be preserved.  Despite the incoherent policies of the European Union, I think there are sensible people there who can preserve the EU and establish relations with Russia and with us too,” the Belarusian leader said.

The head of state admitted that he believes that Trump will be able to deliver on all his promises about peace. “He needs to work on this every day. Time is running fast,” the President remarked.

“As for Europeans, look, we share the same continent. Belarus is the center of Europe. This center is near Polotsk, to be specific. So Belarus is the heart of Europe. Therefore, as we often say, let's live in harmony. Look around, such beauty is everywhere, and it was created by our hands. Not only ours but also by God. Let's preserve this for our children. This is the main thing for all, and for me as well,” Aleksandr Lukashenko said.

“You are a very young person, and I am already a seasoned politician. I have children, grandchildren. Why should I do harm? I must strive to do everything to ensure better life for our children and grandchildren and I urge Europeans and Americans to do the same. So that they live at least as well as we do. This is the main thing. It may sound pompous but this is something that is always on my mind. When you reach my age, you will think the same way,” the President said.